SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to another episode of From the Park Bench, where an artist and an athlete sit, observe, discover and inspire the communities of arts and sports. Because we believe that arts and sports matter and play a huge role in shaping our youth. Will we connect? Will we collide? Will we achieve common ground on the topic today? Find out as we talk. from the park bench. Morning, Ted.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Good morning, Kamala.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I'm doing great. Yeah, it's been a good morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

It's been a good morning. What's in your thermos?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Well, as always, first thing in the morning, it's going to be tea, black tea.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

You are a tea drinker.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

So in the foyer of life, if there were two doors, coffee or tea, like you would be headed to the tea door without...

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Pepsi every time. No, sorry, tea. Yes, definitely

SPEAKER_01 1:00

tea. Have you ever... Have you tried coffee? Like the taste?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Actually, well, my mom would make it when she was young, when she was younger, we were all younger, but no, I did have it, but I didn't like the taste. I love the smell of coffee, but don't like the taste. But actually recently I went to a Tim Hortons drive-thru and they gave me coffee by mistake. I'm like, this tea is really strong. So I have, I know it was, yeah, it was late at night. I'm like, okay, I need the caffeine anyways. But yeah, it was, so I have had it, but not on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I get you. I, Thank you for asking me.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

By the way, what do you enjoy? If

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I had to choose one of those doors, it would be a hard choice. And even some people would say, oh, you're a total tea drinker. Or some people would say you're a total coffee drinker. Because there usually is that real distinction. But for me, I'm totally both. Because in the morning, I can't function without a coffee. I literally get up and I have that coffee and it's delicious and I love it. And I've always loved the taste of coffee. But then I switched to tea and I am a tea brewer. I'm a brew master.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Really? How do you brew tea? Don't you just pour the hot water over top of the bag?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Well, yes. And some teas you have to brew. So I brew kombucha and chaga tea. So yeah, so I actually, some teas you have to brew for a longer period of time so that it extracts. Well, kombucha is a whole different thing. I mean, it's a brew, but anyways. But so I, like as a tea, as a brewer, I have teas herbal teas is how I drink throughout the day huh yeah

SPEAKER_00 2:38

interesting

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I know right

SPEAKER_00 2:39

just orange pico black tea that's my that is

SPEAKER_01 2:42

so basic I know maybe we should explore like widen your tea knowledge or just would you be curious to try some herbal teas

SPEAKER_00 2:52

nope okay no I mean I have tried I have tried I mean I just enjoyed the black tea experience

SPEAKER_01 2:57

yeah I gotcha I gotcha so today we're talking about about all who wander are not lost. So when you hear that, how does that make you feel? Like what comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, I love the quotes. But from a sports perspective, I think about kids and when they're first identifying what they want to do, right? And kids, they will pick 10 different things, right? They never really sort of know what to choose. And I think that's okay. I think it's important that they get a chance to explore because really wandering is contemplation right like they're just trying to figure out what what is my thing they don't think about it that way but I think that you know they just need to have a chance to figure out what they want to do whether it's sports or arts or or it's often for my daughter it's different sports right she tries all the sports so I think I think it really is about exploration for kids and just finding out you know what it is they want to do and hopefully the parents don't push them into one category or another but That's kind of what it means to me. So what do you think about the

SPEAKER_01 4:04

topic? Well, I just want to ask one thing about that is like when it comes to experiences that you've had with kids in sports or even with your daughter, when they are wandering, have you ever found a time where you had to help someone through being lost in that space when they are on a journey?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, that's a good question. I think not as yet, not with my daughter. Like she really is... in the explorer phase. She's looking at all the sports. She tries everything. She's liked some more than others, but she does love sports in general. I think my son certainly was exploring sports until he was 12 or 13 and then decided it really wasn't his thing and he went into more of the arts. Oh,

SPEAKER_01 4:47

no way!

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Look at him! Yeah, exactly. So I didn't really have to guide him because he just wanted to try something else different. I mean, he's such a good kid. He said, do I have to keep playing sports? And of course he didn't have to. But yeah, I think kids really, when parents will want their child to do kind of what they did often, right? And whatever you happen to be, you're hoping your son or daughter does the same and same for me. But I think it's important to really let them explore and kind of figure out where they want to go and what they want to do. Oh my gosh, I

SPEAKER_01 5:22

hear that. Because even when your son said to you, do I have to go into sports? So it's almost like maybe you didn't mean to do it. But there was a, like, he felt an obligation as you were in sports. Dad, do I really need to go down the same journey you did? Like, it's funny. And I'm sure you didn't pressure him because that's not in your makeup to pressure anyone.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah. No, that's a good, I mean, I probably didn't think of it exactly that way, but I'm sure that's where he was coming from, right? Because you could see he tried and he was good at sports, but was slowly getting disengaged and didn't really want to be a part of it. But yeah, I think you're right. He wanted to try the things that he wanted to do. So, yeah, it's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah. Well, let's have your son in here.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah. Noah, you're up next, my friend. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Oh, yeah, I would love and I would just be like, shush, shush, shush, Ted, I want to hear from Noah

SPEAKER_00 6:13

and I want to hear what he has to say. That's right. That's right. So, from an arts perspective, what, you know, how do you think about that as you were growing up and finding your way through?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah. So, for me, I guess when I hear that it's about what is found. So, all who want are not lost and how do you know when you're not lost how do you know when you're wandering and you found where you need to be and for me that is if I had to look at that and I really thought about you know myself and just what it means to me and I guess when you're wandering you're looking for that purpose that goal what is it because wandering could be logistically are you Yeah, yeah. What is your goal? And for me, it's, well, energy follows intention. So your energy, if your intention is whether it's the morning of a day or a month, what is your intention? Where does your energy go? Because your energy will follow that intention. Kind of like a compass, right? Like when you're lost, when you're navigating, the compass pulls from the Earth's magnetic pull. Energy, right? Yeah. So where is your energy focused? What is your intention? in a sense, right? So we are wandering. Remember the littlest hobo?

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, yeah, I do, yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I sometimes feel like that. You know, where I go, I make a new friend. Can't stay for long. Right, right. But I feel that way sometimes because I show up to a place in a relationship and I feel like I have a purpose here. I have a purpose to make a difference, make a change, make someone happy. And then, you know, and then I travel on there's a saying for a reason for a season or for a lifetime so as you're traveling as you're navigating your way how long are you going to stay and for me that is again part of that intention part of that focus and that why and I think that even comes for artists

SPEAKER_00 9:27

yeah it's interesting too I think about it from the when you're younger I mean they don't as adults we're thinking about this more intellectually but as a as a younger person you're just going to the next thing you don't even know what your true north is you're just trying to follow the passions or what you're interested in and I think for kids it's it's in the same way that we talked about or we have talked about in the past that they learn sort of lessons through arts and sports and sort of unknowingly because they're just kind of moving their way through and I think it's the same with this they're they're just pursuing or they're looking for what makes sense then what what what do I want to do? And so I think that's why it's important as a parent, you look at your kid and it's like, I just can just pick something and stick with it. But you really have to back away and say, keep, keep exploring, find out what you want to, because they don't know what their true North is. Even as adults, we don't really know what our true North is. Right. So you don't want to limit kids and their ability to determine what do I want to do? Who do I want to be through arts and sports is kind of what we're talking about. But I think that's an important piece too. So any parent that really feels like, ah, I want my child to be in this sport or in this activity. You just have to sort of step back and let them decide where they want to go because ultimately they're going to pick the thing that, that interests them. Right. So

SPEAKER_01 10:41

100. And that's why I think exposure to both. How do you know if you don't like something, if, if you don't try it. So I, you know, and, and they're going to hate me for saying this, but I put my kids into sports and I knew right away that they felt right away that they didn't fit in that environment. Right. Like this feels, I, I, I think I should be here, but then this doesn't seem right. So you have to really try both. And that's why it's so important for kids to be exposed to both of those things. And even in the arts, when people think of art, it doesn't necessarily have to be visual, right? There's music, there's writing, there's performing. I mean, the arts is such a huge space. As sports is, sports as an individual, sports as a team, right? I mean, you really should try both. I know, well, in sports, there's that competitiveness, which I don't have. So I know right away, but I think, you know, having that and experiencing it, you know, come to, oh yes, I have experienced being on a team and being an individual as an athlete. But I think really trying it out, you know, and just trying even like clay, like I don't really enjoy pottery. Nobody does. You can't say that. I'm just kidding. That kid's going to be a sculptor.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

You know, that's fantastic. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, my parents were huge supporters of the arts. We went to an opera.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, it was in Prague. Yeah, I know. It was like legit. Yeah. And I didn't like it. I just, I mean, again, you know, some people, they have an emotional reaction to opera. I mean, they literally sob like you're in that moment and I can understand how it's beautiful. But to me, I didn't have a connection. But I also went to the ballet and I saw, I remember when I saw Swan Lake for the first time, I had such an incredible connection to it. Oh, it was.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Why? Why do you think that was?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

The beauty of it and the way they just dance. so lightly across the stage and it was so impressive the strength and I did take ballet by the way and I do remember there's a point where you go on your toes right so you're just like doing all the and then all of a sudden you step into that next level and on your toes and it wasn't for me like back then my teacher was like you should go somewhere else you should try baseball yeah but it was just and so I was so appreciative of the talent and the skill and the grace my gosh the grace was so beautiful and the music it just it really it really touched me so yes growing up my my parents were huge supporters of the art and they and they encouraged me to express and to color and to draw right and and they knew that there was a real they had an appreciation for it and they knew that there was a need actually in Europe no not I'm not sure if it's all Europe, but I know in the Czech Republic, they have art schools where after school, the kids go to art school where you are exposed to all the different areas of art. And I think maybe with them growing up, that that was the way they grew up and they realized that there is an importance there.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

So, yeah, that's very interesting. They obviously were leaning in that direction to give you a chance to express yourself so very forward thinking so they were never interested in sports for you or like did your mom or dad participate in sports

SPEAKER_01 15:26

no really they played tennis but that was really well I guess that is a sport but never competitively right right we never went to any sport we never went to a game we never we never went to any like baseball or a hockey game never yeah but they were active they were very active why Always walking, cross-country skiing. But yeah, it's so funny that when I think of what I did, I had piano lessons, I had art lessons, I went to ballet. That's it. That's what I did as a kid. So yeah, that is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

So how did you translate that into your own kids? Because obviously, you mentioned James played sports, Erica played sports. How did that all shake down? Because obviously, I'm assuming you would have given them a wide berth to sort of choose what they wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

100%. And two, you know, when you're parenting, that's what's so great about having two parents is that they come with their own experiences. So their dad was into sports, you know, and he played hockey. So it's just like, well, you guys got to go into hockey or you have to try something. So we knew that it was important to kind of expose them to both. And also there's that team camaraderie Right. Where you're like, hey, you should meet other kids and or even they heard it from their own friends. Hey, my friend's going to try out for a soccer team. I want to go, too. And OK, sounds great. You know, so I think it's your circle of friends influences that. Like if all your friends are doing it, then you want to, too. And I remember, oh, my gosh, my son wanted to go into hockey and because all his friends were in hockey. Right. But there is a lot of skill, especially once you get to a certain level, like rep. hockey you can't just like jump into rep hockey I mean that

SPEAKER_00 17:23

doesn't work yeah

SPEAKER_01 17:23

exactly so it was a little bit naive of the process that happened yeah but yeah I think that plays a part

SPEAKER_00 17:32

yeah it's funny you mentioned that my daughter was talking I was talking to her last night and she recently tried out for a very competitive team and she's only ever played house league she loves soccer but she laughed and said her and her friend thought afterwards why did we go try out for that team like we didn't have the skills but it was still and she wants to She's getting better, but it is funny. You sometimes disregard the fact that, you know, on your journey, you pick something that is not correct for the time. Right. So interesting. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I know. And I guess that that goes back, you know, to to what we're talking about is is that wandering and and and you are wandering and sometimes you do feel a little lost, even as you're navigating, you know, those those exposures to arts and sports, they could mold into what I'm good at, what my skills are, and maybe even what my career path is. Right. So, and then all of a sudden you're wandering down the arts path and then, and then you find yourself, you know, out of university and then you're lost. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah. And I was going to ask you too, any, any pivotal moments in sort of your, your young life when, I mean, it sounds obviously that your parents pushed you into the arts. Sorry, Kamala. But, but was there any pivotal moment where you thought, yeah, this is really for me like I whatever it might be was there anything you can think of as a younger person

SPEAKER_01 18:52

well I always knew I mean from from the coloring I mean I always knew that episode one yeah exactly and there was I think in grade three I drew it was a painting of a girl and not a painting sorry I think I was using crayons I can't even remember the medium but it got put into the Kitchener art gallery I know it's so cool how great for an art gallery to do that exactly Exactly. at the end of the first year in the program was you display all your work. So the first year, you expose to everything technical and interpretive. So illustration can be very technical and then it can be just very illustrative, like more in the artists, like a true artist space. So you display everything and then you have to choose for second year, are you going technical or are you going interpretive? So my art was displayed And it takes about 30 minutes and they come in and they tell me about this piece and tell me about that piece and you're prepared and you put everything up that you think is going to be great. They literally said, so have you ever considered going into anything else? Totally. They literally were like, what about accounting? No,

SPEAKER_00 20:37

they didn't say

SPEAKER_01 20:38

that. Yes, they did. Well, they didn't say accounting, but they did say something regarding numbers. And I thought in my head, I hate math. That's why I'm here. And I was devastated I know it was horrible horrible I mean I pushed through it but during that summer I sure thought long and hard because you come in to compare as you're down this journey and you're navigating your space you always compare yourself to other people

SPEAKER_00 21:09

which

SPEAKER_01 21:09

is a natural thing that you do even in school when we would do our projects we would put them up and we would critique Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's none of that. There's no jealousy. You're literally admiring their talent. But some people, if they're on their journey, they can look at that and think, oh gosh, look at them. They're so good. I suck.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So what kept you on the journey? That's obviously a potential turning point for you to say, maybe this isn't for me. So what kept you on the street? Because

SPEAKER_01 22:09

it's what I love. Honestly, that's what it was. And then I was like, I don't know anything else. And that's where it's going back to that... that North Star and that purpose and that kind of thinking, this is what I want to do. And I really have to stay focused on that. And yes, I may not be the greatest. And yes, I may doubt myself, but this is the path that I want. And it has led me to where I am today. And I'm always creative and I'm Push through and think to yourself and look inside and say, what am I wandering towards?

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah, it's funny. There's one quote that I love, the analogy of a ladder that, you know, you can spend your life climbing a ladder only to realize it's up against the wrong wall. Right. So but it sounds like someone tried to move your ladder and you said, no, this is actually where I want to be, which is pretty powerful. Right. To know that that's actually you've wandered enough to say, I'm happy here, regardless of what it might

SPEAKER_01 23:16

get me. Right, right, yeah. I agree it's the same

SPEAKER_00 23:49

thing we could talk about this forever there's so much depth here but oh my gosh

SPEAKER_01 23:54

because you could like look at how much we've covered and we just only skim the surface on the topic so did we connect or did we collide today it

SPEAKER_00 24:05

feels like a connection I think you know the difference between sports and arts I mean the exploration is I think true for all right and really this is the one where it is all in one sort of book bowl of soup, right? Because you're really trying to figure out, as long as you allow your child or your children or yourself when you were younger to explore, right? The harm is if you don't. But yeah, no, I think the path is very similar for athletes and artists for sure. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 24:32

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

A great connection today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And we want to know what you're thinking. We want to know your thoughts as listeners. What did you think? Anything to add? Be sure to visit fromtheparkbench.ca. Leave a comment. Let us know. Maybe if you even have an idea for where we could take this topic even further, we would love to hear from you. So, yeah. And our next episode, I think we're talking about failure.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yes. Yes. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

I'm excited for that, too. So thank you, Ted. And it was great, as always, to connect. And we say chat soon.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah. See you next week.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

From the Park Bench.