SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to another discussion from the Park Bench, where an artist and an athlete explore a new topic and hope to inspire the communities of arts and sports, because we know they matter and play a huge role in shaping our youth and our community. So get comfortable and join us from the Park Bench. Good morning, Kamala.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

How's your week been?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Heavy. It's been a heavy week. So I'm just going to start the episode off because it kind of– what happened this week, I think it's relevant to the episode topic, and I just feel that it just needs to be discussed. So this week I found out that a young woman that worked in our office took her life.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah, it just– You know, you think about it. It is because as a parent, you know, she's around the same age that my kids are. And you think what she was going through, how she was struggling, what she wasn't saying, what you could have done differently, what maybe if you would have asked more, engaged more, you know, you can't help but think, was there anything I could do? And my gosh, from a parent's perspective.

UNKNOWN 1:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

what the parents, what the family is going through. Because she was such a bright light. She was. She had a smile on her face. She was always so positive. So you think, you know, what wasn't she saying? And, you know, from a parent's perspective, or even anyone, you know, people are always, people are struggling and you don't know. It's that kind of not knowing unless they say or ask or communicate. But even I know with my kids, I always want to ask them how they are, what they're doing. And when anyone is struggling with anything, sometimes it's hard. It's hard to ask for the help. But at the end of the day, If someone is struggling that deep and gets to a point that it goes that extreme, you kind of say to yourself, with all the pressure that these kids are under and that young adults are under, you say like, F the pressure. You just want to be happy. Yeah. You know, if you're not happy, then what's it all for? Pressure in schools, pressure to look a certain way, pressure to succeed, pressure at work, pressure for money, pressure to make enough money, pressure in sports, pressure to win, pressure to be the best. And it just doesn't mean anything if you're not happy.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

So if, you know, you just want to ask someone... How are you today? Are you happy? Because ultimately, that's what it's all about, is to talk.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, I know. God, that's a terrible story. Unfortunately, it happens. I think everybody's probably been touched by something like that, but it's never good to be in that situation. It does sort of relate to our general... topic and the things that we talk about. But, you know, one of the things, I think it's a concept that we had talked about recently called Sondra. I think that's how you pronounce it. That, you know, we're all sort of the central characters in our own lives, right? And everybody kind of walks around as their own central character and you don't really get inside their life. So what you said to make sense is just ask more questions. Your example, of course, is the worst. No parent wants to hear that. But on any level, you still want to connect with people and kind of find out what's going on in their life. So to be curious is certainly important. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 4:18

it's... You have no idea what the ripple effect of you asking them how they're doing. How is your day? I mean, granted, maybe that barista isn't going to unload everything that she has carrying around. But at the same time, just asking how someone's day is, you know, or how they're feeling. whether it's that barista, whether it's your friend, whether it's, you know, why can't a student ask a teacher? Why can't a player ask their coach? Hey, coach, how are you today? You're asking me, you know, at any given time, just asking how someone's doing.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, yeah. No, it's, yeah, it's one of those things that I know as a man, you don't ask the question. You kind of keep it to yourself. But yeah, I think certainly, yeah, Yeah. Yeah. This sort of thing should, you know, they often say when something terrible happens, you know, hug your children, that message, and you're all thinking, oh my God, thank God it wasn't my child, right? But this should be a reminder that it's not just the big things, it's the small things too, right? Like people struggle in big and small ways every day. And, you know, like you say, even just saying, how are you and really meaning it and giving them a moment to kind of share their thoughts is important.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Well, yeah. Going back to Sondre and just about the fact that we all have a story. We really do. We all have a story that is worth sharing. And you may not realize little elements, characters, people, experiences in your story could really help someone in theirs to know maybe how you navigated through something that they're going through. to maybe have a little bit of guidance, shed some light for them to know that they're not alone in the way they're thinking or feeling. So it's always great to talk about your story. It would be fantastic. I mean, probably not everybody would enjoy this. But if we all had a little bubble that kind of just had like a book, like the back of a book, and just kind of that little summary of what your story is like, people can just skim it over and say, hey, oh, that's really cool. Can I know more about that? But we don't.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

And a lot of times... It's a good

SPEAKER_02 7:04

idea, though. Wouldn't it be great? We all have these little bubbles. Or why not... Well, I think everybody has a book in them. I mean, I self-published my memoir, and although probably two people have read it.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I think it's seven people.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Maybe, maybe seven. But I don't regret it. I don't regret the process. I don't regret doing it. If it helped or somehow... shed some light to someone else, then amazing. So why not just do a little summary as if you were writing a book and the back of your book for a bio, just like the highlights of what you've been through, because someone may see something and gravitate towards it and say, hey, you've been there before. What did you do in that instance? Or I'd like to hear more about that. That's super interesting. I didn't know that about you. So Yes, we all have a story and be curious about others. Sometimes their story, the thing about the listening part is sometimes their story may be heavy.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

So if I have a story that's really heavy and I share it with you, for if you asked or if I have something to share, if you already have weight issues, of something you're dealing with, it may be too much for them to take on. And sometimes the listening can be difficult if they have the space for it,

SPEAKER_01 8:33

if

SPEAKER_02 8:33

they have the mindset or even at the moment the openness to truly listen and take it in. But often boundaries play a role. You do want to listen. You don't want to be... dismissive maybe you can you know there are ways to communicate communication is huge and there are ways to communicate like oh that's super interesting or just like i i don't have time but you have to think of it as almost like a ball analogy so if someone's talking to you you want to be there for them to listen yeah because if someone comes to you and they and they actually ask for your time of course you want to be there for them but think of it as a ball where If you're going through something, but you don't want to take it away from what they're sharing, take what they're telling you as a ball and just hold it for a moment because it could be very heavy. And feel it. Appreciate it. Know that it's there. But almost pass it back. Don't add it to what you're carrying because it could sink you. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 9:44

yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

So you do want to listen to them. You want to... And maybe even say, wow, what you're going through is a lot. Maybe you should talk to or I would just... You can't talk enough at the end of the day. You know, there's... Even if you talk to 10 people that day, maybe that's not enough. Just keep talking and keep asking.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, too, the whole concept of Sonder being that the most important person in your life is you, right? Which is true for everybody. I mean, everybody's worried most about themselves. But I think the... you know, investing in others is really the most selfless thing you can do. And it's, I mean, it is also a selfish thing because it adds to you, right? So while you feel like you're giving your time, it can be counterintuitive, but I think it really adds to the quality of your life by investing in other people in those small ways. And the truth is that we don't really do it enough, right? I mean, we all kind of walk past people Thousands of people every day. I mean, not thousands. Plenty of people. A handful, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Some hundreds, some handfuls.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

We work in Toronto, perhaps. But yeah, no, I think you're right. And it's just being willing to listen. And, you know, really be there for people in the communities that we're in, that we talk about, like you have, it's not going to be this random person or a barista that you may or may not know. Right. There are real people you can connect with. Right. So there's a real opportunity to talk to a coach, to your, obviously your mom or dad, brother or sister, teammates, whatever have you. There's, there's. Plenty of people in the space that we're all a part of that should want to listen, like people that would want to hold the ball and give it back to you. Absolutely. There's lots of opportunity if you just give them a chance.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

You're right. You're 100 percent right. It is about, you know, listen to thy neighbor and listen to people's stories or ask about people that you don't know. But it's about the people that are around you, too. And having that time and asking them, are you happy? What's going on in your life? Or knowing or trusting that you can come to them with anything, whether it is in your sports community, your arts community, or even like with your friends. I went on a walk with my girlfriends into the woods. We went for a 20K hike. It was a slow walk, so it was probably about four hours. But we talked about... A lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Did you pass thousands of people? We

SPEAKER_02 12:09

passed no person. We were in the forest on a hike, and the only thing that we seen was just beautiful nature. But we did have wonderful conversations. And the females that are in my life, I'm very grateful for. One thing this week is a lot of gratitude about the people that are in your life and the people that do support you and do listen. And when you do talk, You know, they they not only listen, but they share their experiences, too, and their stories. And I feel with my female friends. family and friends. Well, they're friends, but I consider them family, my support, my female circle. They're very transparent. I don't have a problem at all to say to anyone at any given time, I just want to talk. Or do you have a moment? I have something I want to share, something I want to talk about. And for them, it's the same to me as well. Do you feel men are the same way? Do you feel...

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Like

SPEAKER_02 13:13

when you go on walks with your guy friends, do you guys talk about the same

SPEAKER_00 13:16

thing? We go on walks all the time. When we're not holding hands, we have more time to think. But no, it's, I mean, obviously guys do it differently. We'll meet for a drink or go play pool or things like that. But no, I mean, it depends. I think as you get older, you, less of that sort of macho stuff falls away and you just kind of talk about what's going on in your life and you do look to your best friends in my life anyways to kind of help me through things or just bounce stuff off of. So it It does exist. I'm sure not at the same level as for females. I think you probably, I said this in a previous podcast, more evolved than the men are. And then you got upset at me when I said more evolved. Yes, yes. I was going to say it again.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yikes. And this, I guess, could be for both men and women. But is there a pride? Is there something that would hinder or a fear even of sharing your story to be judged?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I think when you're younger, for sure, because as you get older, you know yourself better. You know your friends better. You feel safer. So I think that's true. One of the things I was thinking about, too, is that Canadians have the... the sort of reputation of being humble and selfless, right? So, you know, we're in the right country. So if you want to, if you, you know, I think it's kind of in our nature, whether that's true or not. I think of people like Terry Fox, you know, what he did for the country, completely selfless Canadian. The thing that happened again to Newfoundland after 9-11, when all the planes landed and people took them into their homes. Like, I think that's just kind of in our DNA. So think about things like that. When you're not sure if you want to talk to somebody, right? we're in the right country, right? I mean, people here want to support you. And I think we talked about this too, like, don't just ask one person. If you're really struggling with something, whatever it might be, it doesn't have to be super heavy. It could just be something at school or at work. You know, if you ask one person and they don't, they kind of push you off, ask somebody else. Like, just keep asking until you get someone that is going to listen. Because I think, yeah, it's certainly important. And I just, honestly, I believe, like, I believe Canadians are very humble and willing to listen. And so, Like I said, we're in the right country for it, so.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Well, that's, it's very patriotic. Thank you. There is something to be said about people in Canada, but I like, and I never like blanket statements or just saying, you know, because maybe not all Canadians are, but you are right for the most part. Our culture is that way. But I just think even in a smaller way, even in your space, right? to ask and to talk. And so I have, I did talk about my female support, but I have a lot of male friends too that

SPEAKER_01 15:57

I

SPEAKER_02 15:58

talk to and I ask. And I think those relationships are important too because I almost, not push, but I just ask and get curious a little deeper. So with one friend of mine who is a male and he had a very, we were talking about a specific relationship about a topic and he was almost close-minded about it. And I felt there was a close-mindedness. And I asked him, have you ever had therapy? And he said, no, I haven't. And I said, I can tell. And then he was really truthful. And I said that in a completely nonjudgmental way, because we know each other well. And then he leaned into it and he said, I haven't, but describe it to me because I really don't understand it. And I thought that was amazing for him to be so vulnerable to ask, I don't get it. And I understand. We talk about people struggling, people needing help, and there is so many tools and therapists and wellness centers. There is so much out there. It can actually get... Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 17:11

yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

And what I use an analogy of is the fitness space, going to a gym. What gym do I join? I want to get in shape. I want to maybe lose weight. And there is tons of gyms you can go to. Some have classes. Some are open 24 hours. Do it on your own. Some have personal trainers. There's your menu involved. You can get overwhelming and you're like, I have no idea where to go. The thing is, is each of them provides something, but they're all so different, different techniques, different tools, different methods. And it's the same with therapy. There are so many options and so many different ways to do it. The thing is, just start. And often what happens is you may get just like in fitness therapy. You think it's working. Everything is going great. You're a couple months in and all of a sudden you plateau. It's not working. Change it up. Maybe the coach that you have or the personal trainer you have isn't working. Maybe that therapist isn't working. They gave you some fantastic tools for that moment, but then try something else. Try something different. But the thing of it is, is if you do want to get healthy, you want to be fit, you do need help. You do need support. Because you would have done it by now. You obviously don't have the tools or the knowledge to do it. So then get help. And it's with therapy. If you've been struggling with something for years or you're not happy, there is someone that can help you. And there's so... Talking about it is step one, right? Even talking about getting in shape is step one.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, yeah. And I want to say too, like, you are very good at, you ask a lot of questions, Kamala. So knowing you, but which is great because you care about people. And I think it's just the investment in others. You don't need to... I'm not saying you're not a professional, but like you don't need to go to professional if you just have genuine curiosity about the other, which you do. Right. So which I'm not surprised your friend was able to open up to you because you do make it you create that safe space. Right. So I think part of this part of this discussion is, you know, how do we in our communities create a space where people do feel they can have that space? They can talk about things that are bothering them, whether it's small things or big things, right? So that's something that you do a good job at. And I think if people have that ability, if you're a person that has that ability, then you should use it and share it with more people because it does make a difference, right? So... Again, we don't have to be psychologists to do it. You just have to care about the group that you're a part of. And you're talking about your group, your people, right? So it's the people you can go to. And I think it's the same in the sports and art space. It should be a safe space mostly for young athletes or young artists. Yes. To be able to have someone they can talk to, whether it's their coach or instructor or whomever. I think that is... One of the benefits of being in this space is that you have a built-in community. When you participate, you're on a team or part of a group. Makes a difference, right? Not everybody can have a really strong friend group, but I think that's the built-in nature of sports and arts is that you have a community. So you should be able to lean into those folks and help you when you need it. And not be afraid to ask. Like you said, boys are afraid, girls are not. Generally speaking, though.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Yeah, kind of a blanket statement, but maybe.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I love blanket statements.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

And that is the collide or connect. So I just wanted to say first off, thank you. I think there was a compliment in there somewhere where you're like. Deep down. Yeah, I think I did hear one. But thank you. I do. The thing about helping people is, and again, this goes back to the whole episode, is just talking and just listening. Yeah. you'd be surprised just how much talking to someone can do and sharing your story can do. But there are levels of support. You can... Of course, there's experts in every field. And if you're truly struggling and you're deep in the depths of darkness, then you do need experts. And you do need people that know exactly, can pinpoint... And I want to go back to the gym analogy only because it's easier for people to reference. If you've been working out, working out and you're not losing weight, something else is at play. And you need that expert to tell you, pinpoint exactly why you're not getting the results. And if you're experiencing some sort of struggle mentally and it's not going away, then you need to find that expert, that person that can really help you through that.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

And I think in this space too, whether it's sports or arts, and I think about how... You know, you may not want to say something to your parents, right? Because you don't want them to know, whatever. It could be embarrassing or whatever have you. But... you know, you have a safe space with your group, with your coaches, with your instructors, I think, right? If they do what they do properly, then you should be able to go and feel free to say, I'm having a hard time or, you know, can we talk? And it's not that you don't love your parents or that you can't talk to them. Sometimes it's just easier to talk to somebody else just to open that door, right? So it's a bigger discussion, but...

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah, and also so that... On the safe space part. I think that's a whole episode in itself, creating a safe space. So as a relationship coach, I'm trained in creating safe space. So making sure that the spaces of the arts community and the sports community have a safe space. But I think that's another episode, episode 50. But I also wanted to just talk a bit about... The level of I'll say therapy, quote unquote, but the level of support. So even before you get perhaps you're looking for a therapist, perhaps you're looking for someone, an expert in that field to help you. There's a whole foyer waiting room of online tools of people like myself that understand perhaps. that don't maybe understand exactly what you need, but while you're in that waiting room and while you're waiting for an expert, there's still lots to be discussed. Yes, yes. And possibly maybe which door you want to venture down, maybe a way to kind of explain when you get to that expert what is really happening. So I feel like, well, I feel like there's more to this, you know, a little bit more to this discussion, but it's just about... the support and talking and really listening and sharing. And don't be afraid to tell someone your story. I guarantee you, if you say to someone, do you have a moment? I want to share something that's going on in my life. I don't think anybody would say, no, I don't. People You know, we're walking and we're doing our own thing, but at the same time, people are there to listen.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah, completely

SPEAKER_02 24:46

agree. So, I feel like we didn't get through everything. So, what we're going to do is we're just going to, this will be part one of part two. And the second part, we'll talk a bit more about the help needed and how it does take a village, as you mentioned, and how it's not just our parents that can help us, but our coaches and our mentors and our teachers and other people in our lives that can really help us through this. Because talking and sharing our stories is the most important thing we can do. So thank you. Thank you, Ted. Thank you, Ted. Thank you, everybody, for listening. And we would love to hear feedback from you. We would love to hear what you think of what we've discussed. You can visit the website from theparkbench.ca, leave a message, leave a comment. And if you are struggling and you do need to talk, then talk. Talk to anyone. Talk to anyone that would listen. And And on the flip side, ask people. Ask people how they're doing. Ask if they're happy. So thank you, Ted. And thank you, Bart Mart, always, for our support. And thank you for tuning in. And from myself and from Ted, chat soon from the park bench.