SPEAKER_02 0:00

Content disclaimer, this episode discusses issues around mental health and suicide.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to another episode of From the Park Bench, where an artist and an athlete sit, observe, discover, and inspire the communities of arts and sports. Because we believe that arts and sports matter and play a huge role in shaping our youth. Will we connect? Will we collide? Will we achieve common ground on the topic today? Find out as we talk from the park bench. Morning, Ted. Good morning, Kamala. So I guess I have to talk about it because it's happening right now. And although this is gonna be um published in a couple weeks and it's gonna be all over the World Series. Yeah. Right. Well you're gonna talk about it? Well, yeah, uh Yes, exactly. Yes, because like although so it's funny. Um so the last game of the I'm gonna butcher this totally. So just please, please hold space for me while I do this because it's okay. So the last game of the American Championship series. Yeah, but what what section was it? You know how they're chunked up into different sections?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Like in hockey, they're ALCS final.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

ALC final.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah, C R ALCS.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Okay, I I'm so sorry for for like everyone in the baseball space. It's really horrible. But but I'm I was super excited and you know, like I know it was a big deal. And then I went to bed and I I didn't stay up for the game. And then I and then I woke up in the morning and it's like waking up for an election. Yeah. There's just this really weird feeling where you're like, oh my gosh, how did it, you know, how did it end? Yeah. So when when I watched it, and you know, the thing about it is is it was a fantastic game. And it's amazing that the Jays won. And there's and baseball's so full of superstitions, you know, and and like it hasn't the last time that um somebody won back to back was the Jays in 90.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Was that the last time?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

That's surprising.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

I know. Anyway, so all all these statistics were coming out, and thing of the matter is, is I felt so sorry for them. Like you'll For Seattle? Yeah. Like it just I do care about the those ones.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

I mean, you care about them, but not like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah. So how do you feel about the whole thing? I mean, it's got a Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I mean a huge Jace fan. It was it was fun to watch. Yeah, it was amazing. The Springer Dinger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was great. It was I mean, it is tough for Seattle to lose. It was such a hard fought series, but happy to see them back again. And and I quickly uh texted a buddy of mine, because back in ninety to ninety two, we were in university and we went and slept on the sidewalk to get tickets. So I said, ready to sleep on the sidewalk again for the World Series. But now, I mean, obviously it's my buddy went on the next day and he was like 27,000th in line or something. It's yeah, different things.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

And and that's what's really cool is to be part of something like that. My gosh, they did that um sound meter in in the in the Skydome or in Roger Center, and it was the highest it's ever been. Really? But the crowd, yeah, just went that energy and and then the emotions on those players.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

I mean, that's it was legit. But that the I don't know, seven years ago or so when Batista hit that bat toss home run, that was insane too. I would like to see if they had the meteor there then. That was a crazy moment, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, apparently that they have the statistics. But super cool, and I can't wait to see what happens next. It's it'll be awesome. Either way, it's just gonna be um spectacular.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

But are you gonna feel sad for Los Angeles if they lose?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Of course. I'll feel of course I feel sad for Toronto when they lose. Oh, what?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Well, I know, I know. No, like whoever whoever loses, who like it's not really a loser. Honestly, those are two winners. I mean, you are going it's it it's like going to the Stanley Cup. Like, I mean, it's it's the same thing. It's the World Series. You're going to the World Series. Either way, I mean, it's it's amazing that you're there, right? I mean, you have to look at it that way.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

You have to in retrospect. But when you're in it, you can't think of it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I I just don't have that competitive DNA in me. I just anyways. It's okay. But uh yeah, but let's get on uh on with the show. So um it's funny, uh, those that know me know my female warrior story and my journey. And it's it's funny today how there's so many male friends, male figures in my life that have gifted me with so much. And today's guest is one of them. So Christopher Bowers is the owner and CEO of Global Breakthrough Education. And now I have to say, because Chris probably, as humble as he is, will not say this, he is the most wonderful, kind-hearted, giving, generous person I have ever met. And not only that, he's so super cool. He always surprises me with these nuggets of criticisms that he's always just comes out, and you just know more and more about him. And I'm just honored to have him in my life. So welcome, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Hey, thank you so much. I appreciate all that. That was nice. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

You're welcome. Now, did you watch any are you a blue? Are you a baseball fan?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

I'll just say go Dodgers.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Just you know, just saying No, no, but are you are you a baseball fan? That's what we want to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

I'm not I'm not a big baseball fan.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

I am kidding. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

You're hockey over here.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

You just picked the wrong baseball team. That's why I asked. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I really, I really I think it'll be a great series between both teams, but I I watch a little bit of it, but I'm not the biggest baseball fan, but I do love hockey. I'll watch it all.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Oh, amazing. Really? So who's your favorite team in hockey?

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Well, stars, of course, Dallas Stars, but then like my daughter, my daughter's a big Maple Leafs fan.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Really?

SPEAKER_04 5:51

So yeah, she likes the Dallas Stars, and after that's the Maple Leafs. Probably because Matthews plays with the Maple Leafs.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Right, yeah. Right, yeah, yeah. That's true. That's that's yeah, that's cool. But it yeah, it's it's um it's pretty great to have you on. I'm so grateful that you're here, and I'm super excited to dive into everything. But let's start off with telling um the folks a little bit about global breakthrough education.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Yeah, well, I appreciate yeah, I appreciate you guys having me. It's um I'm excited to sit back and chat with you both and kind of get to know you a little bit more. And it's always been a pleasure of having conversations with you over the last year or two. Uh, so I'd always always appreciate you and your your insight as well. Thank you. So thank you. Um, so global breakthrough education. I mean, basically, if you want to sum it up really quickly, we're kind of a family consultant company. So basically, we we deal with families that are going through. I don't like to look at families as broken and damaged. I kind of look at families technical difficulty. You know, it's like please stand by and they'll be you know, they'll come back online soon. But it's kind of one of those things. Um, because I just look at I look at what we do as as everyone, it seems like more and more these days families are going through crisis situations, it's becoming more and more acceptable to talk about. So we're we're kind of like a family consultant, but we deal primarily in mental health. So mental health, uh, substance abuse disorder uh in that kind of realm. So we do everything from interventions to sober coaching, sober transports. We're international, so we go all over. Um, I have a team of people that work with us that are great, that are um uh really, really good about being completely completely about other people and helping them to whatever extreme we need to do. So either whether it be finding help, getting the support they need at the time, whether it be uh after people leave treatment, helping them with aftercare, or more along the lines of you know, uh kind of putting together a plan of action that will increase their percentages of staying sober or on the right track when it comes to mental health stuff by itself.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Because I mean, when you think of mental health, there is not always, but a lot of the time would you find that substance abuse part to it?

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Oh, 100%. A lot of times it is, it's either because you know, which came first, we don't, you know, not always we're not always sure about that, but on some cases you are, and uh and it's either the mental health comes first, then the the the substances are there to kind of help self-medicate that. Um and or it's the opposite where the drugs and alcohol are there primary, and then it's the mental health comes in after. Because it's a it's a fine, it's a fine line between it's a very fine line between alcoholism and or substance abuse disorder and the characteristics of that, and then say bipolar or borderline personality or schizophrenia, you know, or schizoaffective disorder.

unknown 8:49

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

It is, yeah. And and Chris has been in the field for 35 years, and I mean, I can't even imagine what, especially when it comes to families, um, what you've been a part of and what you've witnessed. And it takes it takes a c it takes a an a certain individual to be in that space for that long and to give as as much as you've given.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Right. Yeah, it's it's definitely a calling. I got into it at 18 years old and uh I've been in it ever since. I took a couple years off because I got a little burned out and I didn't even know what to do with myself. You know, because that's just kind of who I what I've done over the years, and and and it's just so much there's so much involved in it, and there's so much stuff that's sad, and you get to see that part of it, but there's also the opposite side where people are successful. You see families come together, families heal, families bond back together, and the things they thought were um there was no way they would ever find solutions for are on the other side of that. And you can't beat that.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, yeah. You're leading them through the darkness, literally, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

That's amazing. So, on my notes here from Kamala, thank you, Kamala. Um, she has you down as a recovery coach. So, for those that are not familiar, what can you tell us what a recovery coach is?

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Yeah, well, when we first kind of started the whole coaching thing, it started off being the name was more along the lines of companion, kind of a sober companion or peer support. Uh, and that was back in the early 90s. And basically, what it is is a recovery coach, just like any other coach, uh, if you look at coaches, whether it be sporting events or whether it be you know sports teams or whether it be CEOs that need coaches for the companies or whatever it might be, it's it's just someone that's a consultant that comes in their lives that we're able to see things on the outside of uh you know, of looking in instead of the inside looking out. Yeah. And then basically what we do is we provide, you know, uh we provide your accountability plan when you get out. Because I mean, whether it be, you know, I'm I always say the difference between whether it be mental health or or substance abuse disorder, look, they're both in the same book, they're both mental disorders. You know what I mean? It's all mental disorders. So it's it's kind of like so, whatever way, whatever on that, on that end of it, whatever if they're either mental health or whether they're primary substance abuse disorder, then what we do is we come in as a recovery coach and we set up a game plan with them, basically. And a coach is the guy I always tell people, I'm six foot four, I'm gonna be the six foot four cheerleader in your corner, you know, day or night. If you want me to have pom-poms, I will. Yeah, you know, but I'm gonna be I'm also gonna be that accountability guy that's gonna tell you the hard things to hear. Yeah, and I'm the guy that tells you, here's here's the play you take to get to the Super Bowl, and you can take whatever play you want, but it will not work, you know, and and this is what's gonna work. Yeah, and so it's kind of like one of those things where we kind of meet the client where they're at and we kind of put together an aftercare plan. And so it's very uh, you know, it's very specific on what that client needs individually. It's not a cookie-cutter program at all. We put together something we fly all over just uh just to uh support people and try to put together a plan for them.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

So um I I've worked with um numero and so on that note, I remember there was a friend of mine that was struggling, and I was just talking to Chris about it, just kind of not even, I mean, looking for clarity, but just you know, sometimes you just want to talk to someone about it. And Chris is like, do you want me to get on a plane and and and go see them? Because every I remember this is like everyone deserves to be happy. Like everyone deserves and Chris is like, Yeah, I'll hop on a plane if that's what needs to happen, to let them know you can get through this. Yeah, there is hope, and and I'm here to let you know that I can help you through it. Yeah, that's amazing. And then also to yeah, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

No, I was saying that a lot of I mean, a lot of times, you know, we we wish that family could do that. We we wish the family could could be there, the ones that give the solutions, the support, but you know, most of us won't listen to our families directly, and then a lot of families don't have the information they need. Yeah, so it's like it's something coming from the outside. I mean, and if it I do that primarily because that's what I was taught, because if guys would not have done that for my mother and myself when I got sober, I wouldn't be here today. There's no way. Yeah, and there's people that are willing to step up and travel, and and and the way I the way I look at my life, it's it's I live by kind of commitment beyond convenience. You know, it's definitely not convenient, but it's look, we're committed no matter what, and that's kind of how I try to live because it was done for me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, and and we talk about that all the time, just even in coaching, like kids, you know, you tell a kid, hey, go brush your teeth because it's important, and they're and they don't listen to their parents, but someone else comes along and says, Go brush your teeth, it's important. Okay, I'll go brush my teeth because it's important. So yeah, and after a while, when especially when someone is in that space and in that darkness and they just have no hope, and their parents keep saying, or or loved one keeps letting them know, you're gonna get through it, you're gonna get through it. Well, after a while, you don't believe them, right? It's it's all just it's it's just words. So and I wanted to yeah, go ahead if you wanted to add on to that.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Oh, no, no. I was just I was just gonna just chime on that. It really is definitely where I mean, drugs and alcohol, mental health issues are are much stronger than any love that's out there, but definitely love from the family is important and having that direction of what to do is really important as well. So we coach not only the the the primary client, the person of interest or concern, we we coach the entire family as a whole because to give the family information on how to be with that person during crisis, as well as getting sober, some some family members think or loved ones think, hey, if as long as he stops drinking or using or takes his meds, it's all gonna be okay. That's not the truth. So this is not a yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

And so how so I I've worked with therapists before. Now, how much because obviously you said you started when you were 18, and I'm sure you have a story in this space. How much of your story do you share with the clients? Because sometimes when I work with a therapist, they were taught it, it depends on how they what certification they have, but sometimes they were taught to not reveal too much about themselves. Do you reveal your story? How deep and dark do you go, or is your story deep and dark?

SPEAKER_04 15:01

Well, yeah, I mean, I when I first got in the industry, I was a year sober. I went to work for the treatment center that I went through. And their their their policy procedures were you didn't share a lot of it. You shared a little bit, but not a lot. So there is that there's that balance, right? If it's gonna be serving to the client, then I'll I will disclose whatever I need to disclose. You know, if it's gonna give them some truth or some hope, then I'm willing to do that. But I mean, my yeah, my story's real dark. So I mean, I mean, you can imagine some if a kid needs to get sober at 17, then something something's really going on bad. So yeah, that was I mean, definitely, definitely that. But I don't mind being open to some of the things that, especially when I'm dealing with men. We have you know, females, we have a lot of female coaches as well, women coaches that are really strong, as well as men. But when I'm working with a guy, it I will it's it we end up a lot of times, men, we're talking about things that men normally don't talk about in society. Yeah, we're talking about things that that men normally don't talk about, like in their family, even. So it's it's it's you need to have that identification if you identify with them. It's it's it's okay to be able, from my opinion, it's okay for me to share my experience because that's what the whole thing's about is identify identifying with the other person, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, and I was thinking too that you know when you talk about you come in if the family's kind of not there and able to help. I think in sports, you know, you go to a coach because I don't know how to do it as a dad, right? Or so I think, especially in these moments, and there sounds like many of them are dire, you need somebody that knows what they're doing. Mom or dad's not gonna be enough, brother or sister is probably not gonna be enough. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Yes, one hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, it's definitely and also that kind of um talking to uh an a male, I think there is something about men talking to each other and women talking to each other. And and it's just like like I know for myself, like when I go out with my girlfriends and it's like, hey, what did you do? And and and how's your relationship with your boyfriend or your husband? And and you get into like you talk about everything. You you talk about even some of the things that you come home and your husband's like, Did you share that about me? You know, because that's what we do. We just talk about everything and we ask questions. And then I think for men, you know, they would do the same thing and go out and they would go to the the bar and they would, you know, throw darts and so what'd you talk about? We just talked about, you know, the game or and and they don't and they don't get go deep.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

It's yeah, it's not part of uh how we move through the world. And it's it's funny too. My son, who's now 18, he would go see his friends and be there all weekend. I'd say, Hey, what'd you guys talk about? Nothing. We just play video games. Like they didn't say a thing. So I think most men come by it naturally. With I don't know if it's society, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Yeah, I think we do. I think I think it's really hard for men to become authentic and real. And you know, it's like um, and it when you when you're in recovery, it's kind of the part of what we do. It's kind of becomes second nature for us to share. Uh, but I also think, I mean, yeah, I share a lot about my history, but there has to be a there has to be a balance of of good training and good education that follows with that, a kind of good combination of all, because it can go. I've seen people that didn't have any experience around mental health or drug addiction, and they were amazing at what they did for the training and education. But and I've seen the opposite, you know, as well. So, you know, I think the combination of both is really important.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we I mean, October is uh, you know, mental health month globally, and and you know, we deal largely with you know sports teams and younger folks. When is the right time to sort of broach that subject about alcohol and drug addiction with with younger people, even before they've started, or or how how would you what would you recommend in that space with coaches that are listening? When's the right time to even bring this idea up?

SPEAKER_04 18:52

I think as soon as you can. I mean, it's uh it's one of those things where thank God it's mental health is becoming more of an okay thing to talk about.

unknown 19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

And because unfortunately, because we're seeing it uh play out in professional sports where these guys are are making all the a lot of money, but they have underlying issues that are going on that they're not talking about it. Next thing you know, it ends up in the either losing careers, yeah, uh, or even worse, death or jail or whatever it might be. So I think the earlier they can, the better it is. And I think it should be a part of every sports community that it's it's it's a topic that is discussed, not just mentioned, and not just kind of, but really like have some accountability around it, around how can you keep these kids healthy so they can make it to the pros or even through college without destroying their life.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Or even just yeah, they're just gonna be athletes for life. It could be host league sports, but but so I and when you get to that age too, when you're 13, 14, 15, depending on where you live, alcohol gets introduced, smoking gets introduced. So it may not be an issue or a problem at that point, but I think you're right. Like it's never too early to really talk about and approach the subject. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Yeah, I don't especially from a coach, because there's a a coach and a an athlete's relationship is something special. It's it's different than most any relationship there is in their lives, at least it was for me. And yeah, and I I think that I mean, coach has they have a way about them. If if the coach is open and is willing to talk about stuff and supportive, then that coach could be a huge angel for that person at some point.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Even just to know that there's an open door thing, come talk to if mental health stuff starts happening or things, you know, even at the home, it starts happening, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

And and and that, and that's it. I think about it, and you're so right in terms of the coach, and then you have the club, or you know, even the coach or university or or or whatever that organization are that they're underneath. So they have um a curriculum, they have a program, right? You start off with your fundamentals and then you work and you go to the gym, you have all these workouts. So you have this structure physically to work on your physical body and and tactics. But where is that mental health? You have to work on your mental health just as much as your physical. So incorporating it into it could even be like, How are you? How are you really today? How is how are you feeling? Are you happy? Like just asking those questions. You know, you ask a right question, just asking someone genuinely, authentically, how are you? And they could just break because finally someone has asked me because no one has really been like truly stopped, paused, and said, I want to know.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

And there there are oh, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

No, go ahead. I'll need you go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

No, I was just gonna say there is there's a tremendous amount of training for coaches now in in Canada for sure, a lot of a lot of modules about all things. And this must be a part of it. But I'm curious because I I'm sure I've breezed through it as a house league coach, but I wonder if on the competitive side And even host league, are they really focusing on mental health and and as you're saying, Kamala, somehow identify? Because you as you say, Chris, these people are often trusted more by the kids and their parents at times. They c they could red flag these things when they notice issues coming up, right? So they play an important role in identifying, I think.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

I I think so too. And I mean nowadays it it's a lot more, you know, you see it a lot more in sporting, you know, uh um because it's like people have kind of gotten the the idea or the has have had experiences by former athletes or whatever it might be, you know, going down that path. And for a long time it was, you know, we would get calls when the crisis was happening or after it was over with or in the middle of, you know, it's go, it's like now they're starting to have some preventative. A lot of teams we I've worked with in the past, they have amazing, you know, psychologists that are sports psychologists that are on board, you know. But I mean, coaches, a lot of coaches with all good intentions, you know, I'm not saying every coach out there has that, but a lot of them have really good intentions, they just don't have a lot of information, you know. And some of them do, and some of them are really, really clear.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah. You know, no, and and I mean, we are arts and sports, so there is the sports space, but then there's this whole art space as well. And you look at from an artist perspective, whether it's um in music and visual arts, you know, um actors, any kind of creative artistic element, there is a struggle often, you know, and and we we we see it in any of the greats. Like, look at Andy Warhol. I mean, you know, he was just he was huge, like he was into drugs all the time. And and and and that's not the only one. So we also see it in the arts, and as young artists, that kind of like, how do I express myself? And and often they're in a space of darkness and they don't have a coach, they don't have a team, you know, and and that is a space where where do they get that support?

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is that's big, and I think it really has to do with, I mean, I guess just depending on what art it is. I mean, I look at sports as an art as well, they're under kind of some some of the similar pressure, you know, of just it's more internal pressure of getting better and better and better, not being good enough, not being good enough. That's what they tell themselves, you know? Yep, yeah. It's but but when it comes to some of the art stuff, you look at you look at the dedication it's given. It's like that that that that that's a fine line between having a passion and it being destructive, you know? And it's kind of like because as I I tell people like this, like nowadays you see a lot of the video game stuff going on, it's becoming a such a big sport, but it's like it's such a big issue in the in the addiction community because it's like wow, these kids are you know hanging out playing computer games 12-13 hours a day or even more. Yeah, and then but yet if you looked at it as being if they were playing football and they were practicing, you would never blink an eye. It's just part of football, it's acceptable. Yeah, so that's kind of a weird thing we're kind of looking at now. But I mean, yeah, definitely the the I when you look at like artists in that in that area of of songwriters or uh artists, I mean painters and all that, a lot of them, a lot of them use that emotion in a very productive way to create some of the most beautiful works of art there is, yeah, right? But but but it is a very isolating thing at the same time, yeah. And then you know, then sports you have more of a community aspect for the most part, community aspect, right? So it's see that's kind of some of the stuff that's missing. I think if you look at mental health and addiction, it thrives on isolation.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yes, I know that's the thing, is that you need people people want to kind of um just sink into their own like silo and and not connect with anyone, and it's it's just like you revert. But the thing is you need to lean into people, and I know it's so hard at that moment, but that's when you need community and other people the most, and you want to push them away, and you just want to just leave me, don't love me, just just let me suffer. You know, that's kind of their mentality because they're in that space. But but people just don't give up, just constantly just keep asking and and being there and don't give up on them.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

We do a lot of work with guys in the music industry. I mean, I'm all I go on tour a lot with guys, and you know, it's it's funny, it's like some of these guys are are really huge in that industry, and they have you know, they have world tours that are contracts are signed, they can't necessarily go to treatment, so we'll go on tour with them, but we we basically provide treatment on the road. And so you get to you get to see where the music industry at least it it's a lot better than it used to be because there's a lot of people that are musicians that are sober now and actors as well. But I mean it is it is a party environment, so it's really easy to get caught up in all that stuff as well for those guys.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Of course, of course. Yeah, it it's it's a lot a lot better now, I think, than it than it was before. But Matt Matt, do you have any anything you want to add or or um just comment on anything we've touched on so far?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Um yeah, sure. Um I mean I think like most people during the pandemic, like my alcohol consumption went way up. And I was lucky enough that I kind of I I noticed it and I did something about it, and I don't drink anymore. But when that when I made that decision, it was wild how like you would go to a bar with your friends or whatever, and you don't order alcohol and like the weird looks you get. You're like, well, why not? Right? It it's just like seems so strange to people. Why wouldn't you drink?

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is. There's a there's a slew. I mean, we got a bunch of people I know in the Dallas area, and I'm sure it's worldwide, where people got sober in during COVID.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

You know, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

I always tell people the people the people that that COVID being shut down like that didn't bother are the guys that are really big into meditation, usually the recovering people were pretty solid with that, as well as people have been to jail. You know, you could sit there by yourself all day long in your house, be okay. Right, but a lot of a lot, you know, I I I hadn't I had no problem. I just sat back and enjoyed the heck out of it. But um, but yeah, that definitely the the people that are still out there and people that are just normies, you know, they're they're I I talk to people all the time that aren't alcoholic or aren't addicted to anything, but yet their alcohol consumption went up at some some point, yeah, you know, during that time.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah, my bread consumption went up, so everybody's carb consumption went up a bit. But that's interesting that everybody gained like everybody's hair went out the window and everybody gained 20 pounds.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

But but it's a lot, a lot of kids are born too. A lot of kids were born.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

That's right. Nine months later. But but it is interesting that I never would have thought that from that time that people would actually become sober. I just would assume that like alcohol consumption because it was deemed as um was it a an a necessity. Like like the LC, like groceries, like that was stayed open.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

I don't drink so that was not on my radars.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yeah, no, it they stayed open because it was deemed a necessity because people needed alcohol. Yeah. Here we have the liquor control board of Ontario, so they have like liquor stores. So the LCBO governed by Ontario was open. The LCBO was open the entire time. There were gyms, gyms were closed, but the LC, like the liquor stores remained open deemed as a necessity. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I know.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

They probably realized that they if they stopped serving or having it, then it would cause a huge crisis because then you have to look at the medical aspects of coming off of it. Yeah. But then you'd have you'd probably have riots on every street corner trying to get into the liquor store.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah, one 100%. Exactly. Yeah, thank you so much. And thank you, Ted, and thank you everyone for listening. And please send us some some messages on on what you thought of the episode and any thoughts you have on anything of story that you want to share. We would love to hear it. Thank you, and chat soon from the park bench.